SPEAKER_03 0:00

Pretty much everyone is without water and they're telling us that it's gonna be a month before we get running water. Now we've got a city with a bunch of empty houses and we have a bunch of people who are homeless. You know, when I did a demographic study of our city and the reasons why people wouldn't come to church, the number one reason was they thought the church wanted something from them. They wanted their money. And I feel like we're just putting a script on a mindset in our city, and we're showing our city, hey, we don't want something from you. We want something for you, and we're gonna love you and we're gonna show you the love of Christ in our actions, not just in our words.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Welcome to a special edition of the Believe Again Podcast, Power About Parable, Bookkeeping, and Accounting. I'm your host, Josh Ropri. On this show, we discuss the challenges and triumphs of life in ministry, offering hope, and sights to pastors and leaders everywhere. Our goal is to explore the heart of what it means to believe again and lead well in every season of ministry. In this episode, we'll look at these things in a unique way as we talk about the devastation in Asheville, North Carolina, and what two church planners are doing to help. In this episode, we're joined by two pastors who have faced the aftermath of Hurricane Helene head-on. The storm, which has brought record-breaking rainfall and devastating flooding to North Carolina, has claimed over 230 lives and has left more than 728,000 people without power across North Carolina. Communities like Asheville were particularly hit hard with rivers rising to historic levels and mudsides cutting off all access to essential services. At the height of the storm, 1.75 million people across the Carolinas were in the dark, and rescue teams have been working tirelessly to assist as effectively, according to NBC and News Committee. One of our guests is a pastor who is on the verge of launching his church the day after the hurricane hit, while the other has been jeoparding its congregation in the area since 2016. Both are working tires to support these displaced breeding and struggling to recover in the wake of this unprecedented disaster. Today we're going to hear their stories of faith, resilience, and hope amidst the chaos of one of the deadliest storms to ever hit this region. My first guest today is Pastor Dave Jackson. He's the lead pastor of Rice Church, a new church plant in Asheville, North Carolina, that was set to launch in September 2024 alongside his wife Carrie. Dave brings over 15 years of ministry experience to this new church plant, including serving in executive leadership at the Journey Multi-Site Church in Delaware. Despite this disruption caused by Hurricane Helene, Dave remains committed to building a church that inspires and transforms lives in the Asheville area. Okay, Dave, we uh we we meant to have John Mark on here, been talking to him all day, but the circumstances you guys are in. We don't know if he's gonna join us, but uh he's gonna keep trying. We're gonna jump in here. Sounds good. Give people an idea of uh what's going on there because I think it's hard for people to understand what's happening in Asheville right now.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

No one really expected this storm to be what it was for this area. My understanding it's it was record rainfall, you know, uh like kind of a hundred-year storm for us. It really shut a whole city down. So most people are without power. Pretty much everyone is without water, and they're telling us that it's gonna be a month before we get running water that we can drink into people's homes and our schools. You know, we were planning to launch in one of the schools here in Asheville Middle School, and Nashville City Schools has been so great to us, but they told me they're like, hey, we're closing down schools indefinitely. We don't know when we're gonna do that. We'll be able to give you maybe 72-hour notice. So for the first few days it was pretty rough. You know, people didn't have access to anything. No news, no no phones, no cell service, no internet. They couldn't access uh their money because with no power and no internet, they couldn't go to an ATM and get cash out. And the only places selling anything were taking cash only. So the first few days were pretty rough. Things have started to open up, the church has really responded well. It's been honestly amazing to see the group of churches that have kind of gathered around each other and connected together to try to really map a way to facilitate the needs in our city.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

So when you say no running water, I mean that's even hard to imagine. What is what is having no running water look like on a day-to-day basis for everybody?

SPEAKER_03 4:15

You know, we've been distributing all week at uh Ashville High School, and we would see the same people coming through the lines each day just to get water for their family. There's John Mark.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

I did it. I did it. He did it, he's on. Well, we'll we'll keep this in. We'll keep recording, John. So we're glad glad you're able to join us. We didn't know if you'd be able to make it.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

I made it. I'm not I'm not great with the internet already, and these times have made that even harder.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Well, this just makes it more exciting. So Dave was just telling us the the reality of what it's like uh to to not have running water. Like, what does that even mean for people on a day-to-day basis?

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Well, water's everything, man. Water's everywhere. You know, you you you think about washing dishes, you think about, you know, it's not just what you drink, it's it's how you flush the toilet. It's it's it's every part of your life is touched by running water. So if people aren't prepared for that, then everything is different and it's it gets scary pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

We're just joined with by Pastor John Mark Redwine, the Gathering Church in Asheville, North Carolina, where he's the lead pastor, him and his ride for hell planted in February 2016. John Mark has a background in the U.S. Coast Guard and degrees in religion and Christian ministry from Liberty Theological Seminary, is dedicated to leading a church that feels like family and has three children. Okay, John Mark, I just wanted to give you that little intro since you were joining us. Okay, let's jump into this conversation a little bit more. And I think the main thing like I would want to help people to realize is like how bad is it really? When you if you've never lived through a hurricane or you live through like a um a storm that blew through with a lot of wind or rain, it's different than having historic floods that wipe away your city.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

I read somewhere that they had four trillion gallons of water fall during Katrina, and we had 40 trillion fall during Helene. It was just an unbelievable amount of water. We had two feet of water fall, I think, in the in the month before that. So everything was just saturated already. And this big storm came through and just dumped it. Just dumped, dumped, dumped. I mean, it was more water than than they've ever seen before in this area. Woman, the house across the street from her flooded. The river was parting around the sides of it on Friday morning. And the guy, her little brother who lives with her, was looking out the window and saw the neighbor jump out into the water and swim across and then climb up a tree to try and survive as the floodwaters filled and surrounded and took his home. And the neighbor who was watching said, I just had to close the curtains because I couldn't just sit there and watch this guy wash away.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

It rained for a week before the storm even hit us. So it was the waters were already high. I mean, I had team members who they live near the Swanon River, they had to be taken out by boat, and the water rose up uh over three stories on their apartment complex, and they had to boat them out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

What are they saying is going to be the timeline for power to be completely restored to everybody in the area?

SPEAKER_02 7:17

The last that I heard was that for parts of Appalachia and some of these places where the the grid was destroyed, it's going to be up to six months. I know there's a substation that got wiped out in Asheville where they were going to have to rebuild this whole substation. And it was it was a matter of months, up to six months for them to get this thing rebuilt.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

So, what does that mean, Dave, to not have power in your air for six months? I mean, are can people live there still or what's happening with the population?

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Yeah, what we're seeing honestly is a migration out of the city right now. We're seeing a lot of the people who can afford it are leaving the city. They're going to family members all over the country. The people it's impacting most are those that are are have lost their homes or are homeless because um now we've got a city with a bunch of empty houses, and then we have a bunch of people who are homeless that don't have a place to go, that can't leave the city. We're trying to really serve and create space for.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

John Mark, uh uh as you look around the city, what what how's the uh topography look different now that the floods have come and and done their damage? How does the city look different?

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Well, uh the river arts district and like downtown Asheville, everywhere along the river has, I mean, the the the ground is reshaped, the banks are wider, the trees are gone, the brush is gone. Some friends of ours that live in uh uh uh fruitland, which is maybe 25 minutes south of Asheville, they had a little creek that runs by their house that you can walk across, you could jump across. And that creek came up to where it was about 10 or 12 feet deep, and where it's normally three feet wide, it became about 25 feet wide, and it took out all the trees, all the brush, all the shrubs. Bridges are gone, roads are gone. I was at a place yesterday where this woman's house had flooded out and we were mucking it out, and she told me that and ten feet in front of her house was the new riverbank. It had cut the road in half, and so you could see part of the yellow line, the rest was all gone. And she told me there was a business across the street from her, and now it's the river, you know. I mean, and they didn't even find like the the splinters of the building yet. They don't know where like all the stuff ended up downriver. So the topography is totally different. Everywhere that there was water has changed.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Uh Dave, you were telling me about driving around town. How does how does the city look different as far as businesses, homes?

SPEAKER_03 9:46

There's really two major areas within the city that were hit. Um, that being the Biltmore Village area, and then also uh the River Arts District, which was kind of a cultural center point for our church. Um, I mean, I told you earlier, thousands of square feet of art studios that are literally gone, buildings gone, uh wineries gone, like just complete you're down to the concrete slab in that area. Um restaurants gone, and some of those buildings were historic buildings that we'll never be able to replace. Um so that was really a cultural center point for our our our city, and I'm interested to see kind of how how we end up recovering from that because so much of that was what drove tourism here was the life levily for Asheville for so many.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

So John Mark, how does this compare? You've been in the city since 2016, and and you obviously worked in the Coast Guard before that. How does this disaster compare to other things the city has faced and other things you've been a part of?

SPEAKER_02 10:49

I can tell you that this is as bad as anything that I worked in the Coast Guard, you know, and we we we did all kinds of search and rescue and disaster relief, and it's just as bad, if not worse, than most of that. I moved here in 2015 and watched the River Arts District move from a few different art studios to being this completely awesome area full of restaurants, coffee shops, and all these local small businesses, and they're all just gone. You know, Biltmore Village has always been an attraction in our city. It's drawn in tourism and all those kinds of things. Super historic buildings, been there as long as the Biltmore's been there, and now they're all just studs because they've had to rip everything out. The water was like 26 feet, something like that, right, Dave? Right around Biltmore Village. It's like 26 feet. We were trying to go under contract with a building in Biltmore Village. I saw a picture of that building that we were trying to get under during the flood, and you could just see the roof of the building. So, yeah, I mean it's uh it's it's it's up there with one of the worst things I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Dave, your perspective on things is a is very unique, you know, because you were planning to have the biggest day of your life besides getting married to have the your launch day and then this storm hits. What was going through your mind and what what were you planning at that moment, knowing that this wasn't gonna happen?

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Several people have asked me that, and my immediate thought was okay, we're not gonna have a service, but how can we serve our city? I haven't even been thinking about the launch of our church anymore. We have just been getting food into people's hands, getting resources into people's hands. While it was disappointing, it was really a part of it was like kind of exciting because I was like, okay, this is gonna be different. You know, I've I've watched I've been coming to our conferences for the last 10, 12 years. I've seen and heard the stories of other people's watch. I'm like, all right, Lord, you want to do something different? I'm in. I'm here for it. So, you know, whatever I can do uh in this season to be the hands and feet of Jesus to a city that has is just destroyed.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Wow. Well, I we're all praying with you and and knowing that hey, your life's gonna look a lot different than you thought it would just two weeks ago. And I think people want to know like what's what's next for your church plant. I know that's hard to even imagine right now because you're in rescue mode and recovery mode from the storm, but what what is next for the church plant?

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Yeah, I'm still working on a lot of those details. You know, it's been a a week. We didn't have a launch like a typical launch, but we did launch, if that means makes sense. I think the exposure that people got to Rise Church, you know, handing them water and canned food and working with Convoy Voe and just getting in into the factual the faces of people at the cars and getting to meet them and engage them, I think will serve us really well. So we're talking about what it'll look like to to have like a Sunday morning experience, you know, and uh whether we you know kind of ramp that up or if we try to launch again like a do a like a relaunch kind of in the January time frame. Well, right now we don't know when we can launch because the schools have told us hey, we're closed indefinitely as soon as that we can tell you you can get back in the school we gotta give you 72 hour notice. So that makes it pretty hard to plan anything uh when it comes to a location uh where we have weekend a weekend experience. Yeah, we'll we're still working through all of those details. We will launch, though. I am confident in that. We will launch and we will have great Sunday morning experience.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

You guys are killing it, Dave. You know, Josh, uh these guys from the very first day that this whole thing dropped, Dave and and Carrie have been out there smiling, loving people, working around the clock every single day to serve this city. And I agree, Dave. I mean, I I think that that Rise Church is here, you know, that it's not coming, it's not to come, that Rise Church is here, that everybody in our city is finding out about it the best way that they could right now by seeing who you guys really are.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

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SPEAKER_02 16:00

Yeah, we've had our fingers in everything. I think I've lived about 10 years in the last 10 days. So we've done some stuff like distribution for South Asheville, Mills River area in those first few days. They got their power and water back pretty quick. And so we've shifted our focus more to, well, we've we've continued to try to meet the needs of our church. And so the people in our church have been through a horrific, traumatizing experience. And so in those first few days, we're making sure they had water and that they had food and they could eat. And now they're finally starting to tell us about the needs they have that, you know, my my chimney got ripped off my house. Hey, there's a hole in the roof, there's a tree there. Can somebody move the tree? Can somebody get this tree out of the way so they can reconnect our power and things like that for the church? But then we're also looking out to some of the smaller communities, working with some of these little Appalachian churches. Um, Pastor Robert Knight, one of our pastors on staff, lives in Mars Hill, which is on the north side of town. They've had uh a yard full of tents with teams of 20, 25 people up there every day, and they're loading up pickup trucks full of chainsaws and supplies and driving out into Appalachia and cutting roads for people, getting people out, finding people, getting supplies to these small churches. I'm telling you, every little church in Appalachia that's 800 square foot is absolutely chock full of supplies right now so that they can keep their communities alive. And we're thinking about what we can do in the long term, you know, for these folks that aren't gonna have water for months, electricity for months, how are we gonna be able to help them survive and weather this next season, the long season?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

I guess I'd ask you the same question, Dave. What is pastoring in the midst of this devastation look like for you?

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Yeah, I mean, for me right now, uh much like John Mark, you know, just getting a hold of my team has been uh the the was the number one priority in the beginning, just seeing how everyone was. I mean, I had a launch team that was built and with no cell phone service and and no power that made it made it pretty challenging just to check on people. But so I started driving out to people, um, you know, driving to their homes and seeing what they needed and uh delivering goods and water and and those kind of things. Um and then the second part of that has been trying to ignite like a vision for serving in the hearts of my team, even though we didn't get to do like an official launch and really just pouring vision into them and creating a culture like hey, this is why we are here. This is why we exist. And then beyond that, it's been a lot of like like one of the things we were sure to do when we set up distribution was hey, we want to pray with people too. We don't want to just hand them a bottle of wall, we want to meet their spiritual needs. So we would set up a a line and we would have team members that were ready to pray for for people as they drove through. We'd say, Hey, pull over to the right, we'll pray for you, and sit there and pray together, try to meet the spiritual needs of our city too in this in this moment. So that's what we've been doing.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

John Mark and Dave and you know, I assisted both of you guys. What did the partnerships look like with the with the churches, other organizations coming and helping you? What kind of help and support have you got? And and you know, what does that look like and what does it look like to work together with other pastors in your city?

SPEAKER_02 19:16

City's been awesome, man. These guys, everybody's been like, we have this text thread with 25 guys on or something like that. And they've everybody's just kind of been dropping in what needs they have, and then another guy will chime in and say I can meet that need, talking about what who's doing what and where, and staying kind of organized around the city. Matt and Michelle Coleman at the Dream Center in Asheville have been uh running like Energizer bunnies this whole time and and uh absolutely crushing serving all these lower income communities in our city, and and then that's been unbelievable, man. It's been the the the the the way we've seen churches work together in our city in this season has been unbelievable, unprecedented. Even during COVID, it wasn't like this. I mean, this is this is a next level thing. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah. Well, Dave, how have you seen support come in from the the the broader church outside of Asheville and other organizations helping you you guys out?

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Yeah, uh there's definitely a sense of unity in our city around a large group of churches, which has been amazing. And that there was a foundation built before this happened, you know, where we were connected and and trying to connect and trying to make a difference together, and that's been amazing. Uh other organizations though have been awesome. Art, you know, uh you guys have been phenomenal in supporting us as well as connecting our voice to the rest of the art churches. So I've been I've got many calls from our church family members all the time. People I've never I've people I've known, people I've seen on stage at the conference, they're like, hey, what do you need? What can we send you? Um special shout out to uh Hope Front Church, Pastor Matt Fry, um, and those guys, they they've we just got another truckload of stuff from them today. They've plane stuff in. It's been amazing, just the support, and then Convoy of Hope certainly has come. They're trying to find a place to sit set up for a few months, but they came and got a tractor trailer and semi on Saturday for us that we were able to distribute. So that's been great, and it's making a difference in our city. I had a city councilwoman south by our distribution the other day, and uh her exact words were to me, in quotes, the church is saving our ass right now. That's what she said.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

That's the first that's the first cuss word on this podcast.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

Um that was what her words, but I felt like uh I should share it again. I thought, man, we're we're being a light to the city, um, all these churches that are trying to meet those needs, and it it's I think it's gonna make a difference. You know, when I did a a demographic study of our city and the reasons why people wouldn't come to church, the number one reason was they thought that the church wanted something from them. They wanted their money. And I feel like we're just Flipping the script on a mindset in our city, and we're showing our city hey, we don't want something from you, we want something for you, and we're gonna love you and we're gonna show you the love of Christ in our actions, not just in our words. And that's what we've done. It's been amazing. So good.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

John Mark, he talked about flipping the script. How do you think this storm and what everyone's experiencing right now will determine how you maybe you reshape your vision and mission of your church moving forward? Do you think it'll change it all, or are you guys already in line with everything?

SPEAKER_02 22:30

No, I think we're absolutely changed by this, just like the banks of the river, man. I think um who we are is evolving, the way that we work with others is is is gonna be better than ever, uh, or other parts of the body. I think that what we've seen here Asheville's a unique city. And um I think we've always known that it took the it was gonna take the whole church to reach a city like this. And I think that this disaster has kind of proven that. And so I think that'll be a bigger priority in the future. But it's always good for the people in your church to suddenly care about making sure their neighbors have what they need. And it's always good for the people in your church to suddenly have all the walls around their hearts to serve others just crumble in one day. And that's what we've seen. We've seen people step up to serve uh in in ways that many of them it's it's a brand new adventure for them. And they are devastated by all the trauma that we're experiencing. But I can see the light, you know, in people's eyes when they're getting the opportunities to serve their neighbors in brand new ways. And I think that's going to become a cultural piece for who we are as a church. We've always loved that said serving is our calling at the gathering. And I think that um we kind of have some skin on those bones now.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah, it takes on, you know, same thing, takes on new meaning. There's a famous uh Fred Rogers quote, Mr. Rogers, he says, When I was a boy, I would see scary things in the news. My mother would say to me, look for the helpers. You'll always find people who are helping. And you guys are are being that, you're giving people reason to find hope in Christ in the midst of the storm. And I just wonder, Dave, what's been a glimmer of hope for you or a moment where you've seen hope in the midst of the storm that you can leave people with? Dave, why don't you answer that and then John Mark, why don't you leave us with the final word?

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Yeah, I think I think kind of touched on it a bit ago. The seeing the the perception of the local church change in our city for the average person, you know, we've got a lot of church buildings here. I remember when I came to plant here, first of all, I had people tell me, Don't come to Asheville, that's where churches go to die. Literally told me that. And uh what do we need another church for? There's one on every corner. There's a lot of empty churches on every corner, you know, in our city. Um because they're not they haven't always been focused forly on the community. When I would tell people, okay, my name is Dave and the pastor of the church. We were supposed to launch on Sunday, we just want to love you. We just want to give you the stuff that you need to like a church put this together. Like the perception of what the local church can be and do is shifting, and that to me is creating a ton of hope around uh what we're I think we're gonna be capable of doing as the big sea church in reaching our city.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

John Mark, any final any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 25:28

I have been plowing this ground for a long time, you know, and it's hard ground. It's hard ground. And my wife grew up on a farm, you know. I grew up in a country club, and so very different. And she would not like me talking about farm stuff. But what I do know is that ground that is hard to plow doesn't produce as much crop. And what I think has happened here, and what I've seen already is that the ground has been softened by all this rain, you know. On the other side of this thing, people who you never would have been able to continue a conversation with after they found out you were a pastor or even just a believer are now willing to sit down and share a meal with you. You know, we we've seen people who are witches and and proud of it. Uh stand next to us as we hand out meals and say maybe there's something to what you believe in. You know, so I I think that this is a disaster that I never would have asked for. I think it's it's not anything we ever wanted to come. Um, but I think that on the other side of this, the gospel is going to find some fertile soil in our city.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Right. God doesn't bring bad things, but he can bring good things out of them. Why don't you share how can people follow along with you, stay in touch with you, and where should people send help?

SPEAKER_03 26:50

Yeah, certainly you can stay in touch with us, just following us on uh our social media platforms. That's at RiseChurch ABL. Uh on all the social media platforms. We'd love to stay in touch with you, stay connected with you. And then we've created funds right now, you know, within our giving that are for outreach and refunds. If you want to partner with us, honestly, right now that's the best way. Uh we are seeing a surplus of supplies here to the point where most places don't have room for any more supplies. But there are families that have lost everything, they've lost their homes, they've lost their cars. We want to be a part of re helping them rebuild their lives. And all of that money that's given to our outreach and relief fund is going to go towards that.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Amazing. And um, I don't know if we still have John Mark with us. Um I think he froze up. He froze up, and that's you know, I'm just happy to get to talk with you guys. We delayed the episode because you went to go get a Starlink, you know, to before. So uh what does that mean to have that Starlink for your community?

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Uh it's gonna mean a ton. I mean, again, without power, nobody has access to internet. So we're gonna set the Starlink up at our distribution center and and we'll blast it on social media and let them know hey, you can come hang out with us. We'll we'll find we'll get hot meals for you, we'll have food and supplies, check your Facebook, and connect with your family members and give them updates, and uh hopefully it'll be a blessing to the people that are able to come and experience it.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

John Mark's not here, so I'll wrap up for him. You can follow them at gatherasheville.org is their website for their church, and their Instagram is gatherasheville. So Instagram.com slash gatherasheville or at gatherasheville. And man, I appreciate you guys. Um, I know there's a lot going on. It's it's hard to get away, even to do something like this. And uh hopefully we'll get the word out about what's happened, what the church is doing, and how amazing it is to see the church rise up in the midst of a storm and serve people.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Amen. Thank you so much for having me on and getting the word out and helping us get the word out. Really appreciate it. Just uh it's an honor to be with you and get to share just a little bit about what's happening here in our city.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Thanks, Dave. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Believe Again Podcast, Power by Parable. We want to thank our sponsor, Parable Church County, Bookkeeping, and Strategic Services. Parable helps you place every dollar on mission telling the story of his kingdom. Find out more at LivyourParable.com slash believe again. Make sure to let them know you heard about them from the Believe Again podcast to get 25% off onboarding fees. Until next time, keep believing, believing strong, and let's keep praying for Asheville.