SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome back to the Build the Church podcast, where we help you gain momentum, grow your church, and go the distance in ministry. I'm Josh Robrie. In this episode, I get the opportunity to speak with Pastor Dustin Dozier about building connection systems that strengthen the church. Dustin serves as a teaching pastor and director of next steps at Upstate Church in South Carolina, a 10-location church reaching nearly 6,000 people each week. He coaches and consults with church leaders who want to build healthy churches that grow through meaningful relationships and deep community. Dustin is the founder of the Connected Church Co. and the number one Amazon bestselling author of the Connected Church, where he helps pastors and teams create cultures where people feel known, valued, and connected, not just counted. It's going to be a great conversation that helps you close the gap between attendance and belonging as Dustin gives you some practical steps to nurture guests into taking next steps into membership. Before we go to Dustin, I have a question for you. How well is your church doing at seeing people move from a next steps class to a team? If you're looking for something to help encourage people to move beyond attending and into serving, then I want to encourage you to check out your team.church. Your team gives people in your church the opportunity to see how God has created them, what he has created them to do, and how they work on a team in an innovative and enjoyable way. If you'd like to find out more about how to help people in your church discover their design and their place on your church's team, then try the Your Team Pro Tier for free for 30 days now at your team.church. Now let's jump into our conversation with Dustin. All right, Dustin, thanks for joining me on the podcast today. So glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Man, I'm glad to be and an honored that you would have me. Looking forward to our conversation today.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I've enjoyed learning more about what you're doing for churches. It's right in the wheelhouse of what I think is so crucial for so many pastors and an area that they all want to get traction in, and that is connecting people to the church and being what you call a connected church. But tell us a little bit about yourself. What's been your journey so far in ministry and how did you get to this point?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

So, really, a long story short, I didn't grow up in church. A really acute girl invited me to church when I was 14 and came to a student event, and I went with because of her and some pizza. Heard the gospel for the first time. Man, God just completely got a hold of me. And that first summer, went to my first ever student ministry camp and felt a call to ministry. After that, kind of went through the go to college, get a real job, all that stuff, started in student ministry. But right now I serve and have been serving for eight years at Upstate Church. It's outside of the Greenville, uh Simpsonville, um, South Carolina space. We're a 10-location multi-site church where I serve as one of the teaching pastors and campus pastors. So I lead a campus. And at the same time, which is kind of a little different for setup, is I also lead what we call next steps and connections across all 10 campuses. So I've had the privilege of doing that and being a part of launching uh really the third campus, the campus I lead, all the way to the 10th one that we have now. So this is great. We get to really dive into the first-time guest journey all the way to really assimilating and connecting people within the body of our church. So passionate about that.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah, I was uh really happy to see all that unique and great experience that you have and that you'd be willing to bring that to the pastors that tune into the Build a Church podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Well, yeah, I've always had a heart for pastors. Pastoring a church can be a lonely place, and a lot of churches are just struggling and they're bivocational. They don't have a big staff or a big budget, but people are people, and every church really is all about growing people, discipling people, inviting them in, but also really discipling their hearts and letting them walk more towards Jesus. So it's about connections. Really, no matter the size or shape or denomination, I mean, that's the heart of it. And so coming out of COVID, actually, our campus existed for about nine months. And after COVID, it felt so daunting. It felt like we were really good at gathering people on Sunday mornings. But then after that, it felt like there was no connection in small group. There wasn't really deep, meaningful conversation and relationships happening. And so from that, it was really, okay, we need to focus on the back end of follow-up and really these deep, meaningful relationships to take people from just attending church to belonging to the body of Christ. And out of that, man, God just did amazing things, really started to partner with churches, started to have conversations. Man, my heart is for the local body and for other pastors. Just love helping them kind of connect the dots, fill in the gaps, kind of see what's missing and where they could really thrive and connecting with the community and really engaging the unchurched, but equipping the church. That's really kind of how it started and just these conversations. God's been so good in that.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Well, today we're gonna talk about building connection systems that strengthen the church. I love systems because I love people. And I believe that if you your priority is people and you value them, having a good experience and feeling prioritized, then you're gonna build systems that support that. If not, it's just gonna be chaotic. And I think for a lot of pastors, their heart is for people. And that's why I love one of the things that you told me was that you uh have a heart not just for people to attend, but that gap between attendance and belonging. You want to close that gap. How do building connection systems that strengthen the church help close that gap between attendance and belonging?

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah, I think you have to be really intentional. So often we just kind of say, let's get them here and we'll have great worship. The preacher will preach a great message and we just leave it up to chance. We all know this, especially coming out of COVID. We just live in a very skeptical society. People, they don't want to give their information, they don't really know what's going on in your church. So they check you out online, they give you a chance, they attend. We need to be over the top with systems in place, not to treat them like another number or an automation, but to really have meaning that if we truly care as ministers, as uh church leaders, if we really care about people, we're gonna go out of our way and give them that hospitality experience that they deserve. So we're gonna say, hey, we know your name, or we're gonna follow up. And if you don't have that, people just seem like you're just uh an event to attend. That was really good show. I really liked the lights, the preaching was okay. And most growth problems, connection problems, they're not so much on the outreach. They're more on the what do we do now? People are coming, we've they've given us two or three weeks, Sundays in a row. And what are we doing after that? I wholeheartedly believe that connection is not just a program, it's not just a ministry. Connection is uh discipleship. We are given the opportunity to disciple people in a path to really belong in our church.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

So you took this idea, you wrote a whole book on it called The Connected Church. Tell us a little bit about this book, and then we'll jump back more into these systems.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah. So really the heart behind it was so I have three teenage boys. They're always on their phones. I would find myself and my wife uh after the kids go to bed. We're just scrolling on phones. I don't know if you do that, Josh, but uh we'll we'll do that. And it kind of hit me that we are the most connected generation in the face of human history, but yet we're deeply disconnected. That we're, you know, depression rates have increased, uh, people are more isolated, suicide rates, medication are all increasing, and it's impacted the church. So as a pastor, I've seen it where church attendance is at best maybe once a month is is the average. So, what can we do to connect people? And the church, if you look at the early church in Acts 2, it is really community and the impact that it's had on the church. So I never thought I would write a book. You can ask any of my teachers in high school and or professors in college, maybe even seminary. I never really thought that, but really just sharing my heart of what do we need to do? And it starts with pastors and church leaders, they have to be connected with God. It starts with a personal relationship, their personal time with the Lord. So many leaders are leading from a place of burnout, from what I would call Saturday night specials. They write a sermon on Saturday night because it's been crazy. And it's just not a good place to be for anyone. So we have to be there and then kind of line up what does it look like? What are what are those systems? What is the framework to fix the connection problems from authentic small groups to transparency from the pulpit and on the stage to reaching out to the community and actually showing that you care? So I've put all of that in the book and really kind of some examples of what we've done at Upstate Church, but also some of the examples of other churches and what they're doing. And just kind of as a framework, it's not a one, two, three step-by-step guide, but um I have some resources on our um my website for that. Uh, it really is just this heart of how can we be leaders that aren't just focused on one hour on a Sunday, or if you preach a little bit longer, maybe an hour and a half, but to really be the church that if we disappeared, that everyone in the community would really notice because we've made that kind of impact relationally by being a good neighbor and outreach, but also um growing the people that God has uh brought to us.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

I think that the the resources that you have are just tremendous. Looking through your website. I think every pastor that's listening to this should check it out. And we'll we'll talk more about what those are at the end because I really genuinely believe they're going to help people out. I'm not just plugging it uh because Dustin is on the podcast. So, in this section of your book where you talk about building connection systems that strengthen growth, what are those systems that you're giving? Just give us some practical advice in that area.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

One of the things I highlight, and I think it's a great starting point, is to have a team of volunteers that I would call a connections team. It might be guest services or first impressions or whatever information team, welcome team. But it is a group of people that aren't just friendly people. I think every church would say we're a friendly church and we have greeters, but I'm saying beyond that, that really from the parking lot to the pew and beyond, there are several touch points. And so that's a part of the system where you have to have quality leaders that love your church, they love the mission, and they just love people. You don't want to have Eeyore at the front door being like, Welcome to church, I hate your guts. You know, you you got to have a quality system that they understand the why, because we you know this, Josh, that statistics show that someone makes up their mind about our church in the first seven minutes. And if we can really have a wow factor, that's an incredible system. Then I would say another piece of that that is so valuable is the follow-up. A lot of a lot of churches, they might uh send a note, they might have an automated email that goes out the next day. But I'm a firm believer of nurturing the first-time guest that I really hit and kind of implement across uh churches I talk to a 30-day plan that within 24 hours they need to hear from the church, whether it's a text or an email. Um, a day or two later, they're hearing from you again. That's very personal. You might think this is crazy. We have 10 locations, we have um over 6,000 people on a Sunday, and all of our campus pastors by Wednesday, they write handwritten notes to every first-time guest. And so we try to make it personal in that, but then you're plugging them in. You're not just being cheesy to knock it off a list. You're you're looking at clear next steps. And that's what I would say is another important system. What is the path? You take a first-time guest. Where are you taking them? Where are you guiding them? A lot of churches to say, well, just membership, and that they don't really know. So you have to have people and a path in place to be intentional and to walk them through so you know where they're at.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

So if you were consulting with a church that was concerned about those first seven minutes, making that first impression count, what systems and strategies and you know, advice would you give them to walk someone from the parking lot to the pew and just hit a home run in those first seven minutes?

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Well, this might sound like a crazy thing, but I always suggest have somebody that has an unbiased opinion come visit your church and give you honest feedback. And so they walk through the service and they do everything, kind of a secret uh shopper type mentality because that's the hardest thing. When I walk through, everyone's gonna say, hey, and hey, how's it going? Good morning, and whatever. But you have a stranger and get their opinion. Hey, they were grumpy here. The person uh when I hit the front door, they were talking to someone else, they didn't welcome me. And so it gives you a good starting point. So you have to evaluate those things because every pastor and church leader has a blind spot when it comes to that. So I think that's huge. That's a great piece.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Then let's talk about that for a second. I mean, there those are those blind spots that we we don't know because as a pastor, you're not experiencing the first time guest experience at church. You're coming in from the back side of the church, you're walking onto the platform, you're not going through those systems. So you need someone to take a look at that. I can think of uh a couple churches that I've been to where one, the the greeter was leaning against the wall and doing this with the program, and she just did not care if I lived or died. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. Who lived, who died, who told the story, she does not care. Okay, she's never seen Hamilton. And then I know uh another church I visited would probably consider themselves like a super friendly church and that they're very accepting. But when I walked into the church, all of their team was together and that team loved each other. But again, if I lived or died or went to the church or not, they really had no idea because they were just into each other. And so having that, you know, outside perspective and and understanding that you're making assumptions about that guest experience that might not be true, that's a reality for pastors.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah, and every church is different because some churches, you might have a uh big facility and big campus where you have 15 different entrances into your building, where you might be smaller and you have one main one. Regardless of size, you have to be intentional and just think about it from a first-time guest perspective and not in your kind of normal pastoral role where everyone is great and friendly. Because if they're if someone's coming with lots of questions, even anxiety, and they're asking, is my family gonna really plug in here and belong here? You want to be intentional about all of those touch points. So you want to make sure that uh your door holders aren't just saying the same thing over and over and over, but there's kind of a script where they know, um, hey, good morning. We're we're so glad to see you. Or what not just, hey, hey, you know, here's this. You want is this your first time type mentality, but you're putting the right people in the right spots. And that takes some some wiggling around, but it's very intentional. What I teach and what I'd always encourage uh churches is that you want people in the parking lot, you want people at the front, kind of the main doors, exterior doors of your church. You want people holding the doors as people enter into your worship space. And then you want people inside the worship space that are helping people find a seat. Then on the back end, you want people who are at a next steps information desk, welcome center uh type thing where they can answer questions. That right there is huge because oftentimes I've been at churches, I don't know if you've experienced this, Josh, but where someone comes up with a question and the person says, I have no idea. Um, you know, and it's like if you walk over there, you see that guy right there? Um, or how about the end of service? If you want to sign up for a group, go see Robert. He's gonna be in the back for a guest. Who is Robert? I have no idea. Um, and so you have to just look at all those things, your language, your intentionality, and say, okay, I'm a first-time guest. Do I know where you want me to go? And do I know what I need to do? And do I feel comfortable? It's huge. It goes a long way.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

A lot of churches right now, they are actually switching up who they have as ushers. They're training college students to be the ushers that can be a smile that can direct you to your seat. But the church I grew up in in uh Baton Rouge, the ushers all wore red jackets, and it was like it was like the Queen's Guard, you know. Did it match the carpet? No, it didn't match. The carpet was blue. And my dad was an usher, and it was like this whole community. And uh man, as a kid, when you saw that red coat and the three brass buttons on the sleeve walking towards you, you straightened up. And so now it it seems like people are seeing that usher role more as part of the guest experience. And you mentioned having team members say, I don't know. And one of the things I tell pastors is never say I don't know. What is the phrase that you teach people to say instead of I don't know?

SPEAKER_01 16:43

We say, well, we teach them some things like, hey, that's a great question. Let me find out. That's it's just softer and it's proactive.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

So I'll find out. Takes ownership.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, I'll find out. Another aspect of that sometimes is the pointing of, hey, where's where's kids check in? It's over there. So at our central campus here at Upstate Church, our kids' building is across the street. And so if someone comes in to kind of the main entrance and they're like, hey, I have kids check in, it's our first time. If if a connections team member says, You see that building across the street, if you just walk over there, someone will help you. That's not what we teach. So we teach someone, we teach someone, we say, uh, always lead, never point. It's kind of one of our axioms. And we want them to lead them to that area. Meanwhile, in that time, hey, what, hey, how'd you hear about us? What's your name? What's your kids' names? Oh, where do they go to school? How old are they? You play football, man. All those kind of conversations uh let the guard down for the first time guest. And they're like, wow, they actually care. And they're walking me, not pointing uh, you know, to this big building where it's going to be another overwhelming uh type type mentality. So uh all of those things are super intentional. That quite honestly, I don't think anybody's malicious about it. We just forget. We forget as church people that have that are doing ministry, we just forget, or we're just really busy in the moment. And it's like, let me hand you off here and let someone else take care of it. And we have to be personal in that and have those personal touches.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yes, uh, the Ritz Carlton has the philosophy that they uh give a certain budget to solve any problem that you come across as a staff member helping a guest. And I think every church that has a volunteer, has a team member in those connection roles needs to empower them to take ownership and never dismiss someone. Because that's the difference between joining a community and showing up to church because there's people that care about you versus just watching something on TV. Because if we don't have those kind of systems that you're talking about in place, the the church begins to compete with movies, entertainment, and television instead of being what it is, which is a community that's discipling people into the image of Christ to fulfill the great commission.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

I I 100% agree. Like we just cannot compete with Hollywood and all of those things, but all of those things are what I would say disconnected things. You go to an event, you go to a movie, you go to a concert, you watch that show, and you just veg out and there is no human dialogue and connection. And so when someone goes out of their way to make you feel seen and valued, especially in the church, I mean that that should be the safest place where someone comes looking for hope, looking for Jesus, looking for some kind of change in their life. They're they're they're just, man, they're going through something really bad. They have some story to tell. We should be the people that say, Hey, I see you. You're important. We're not just gonna throw you out to the wolves and let me let me help you get connected here. And that speaks volumes to the first-time guest.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Well, let's take that a step further. You mentioned that you teach churches to nurture a first-time guest into connection. So, what does that look like to nurture someone into a connection with the church?

SPEAKER_01 19:54

I'm a firm believer that every ministry has a next step for somebody. And being able to get in a room with your church, because every church is different in this in this way, is and really kind of determine and define what is the next step. So for the first-time guest, what's the next step? What do you want them to do? Is it fill out a connect card? Is it to go to the next steps area? Okay, so then they do that. What's next? Do you want them to come to a membership dinner, a class? Do you want them to join a small group first? And I would say as you are defining that path, it is so much easier to have baby steps. Some churches with good intentions say, okay, once we get them to membership, the next step for membership is a discipleship group or D group. And what that looks like is every Saturday at seven o'clock in the morning, they are scripture doing memories, uh, scripture memory, and they're reading books on leadership. And it's just like like throwing an infant into the deep end. So you have to have baby steps along the way. And then with that, everybody on your team, from the kids person to the student person, they know where the next step is for everyone to take. So it's very clear, it's very intentional of what every area of this, where where are they walking and what is that next step so that we can move them from being a first-time guest and you can't force them, right? Like we have people that attend our church and they attend for a year or two before they even uh come to a membership thing. And you have to be really, you want to push them a little bit, but okay, you can't guilt trip them into that. And so just be intentional, and then I would say you constantly have to evaluate those things. For instance, if someone comes to a membership class or dinner or an event, you can't shepherd what you can't see. So you have to be able to say, All right, we had a hundred people at this, only 20 got plugged in. How do we do a better job of that? Where are they plugging in? And we have to be able to see things beyond just attendance metrics and giving and to be able to look at those things. And I promise you, as you do that and you really care about people. People, you will see more lives changed, salvations increase, you'll see baptisms increase, you'll see uh more engagement in small groups and your volunteer involvement and stepping up to serve all of that increases. One of the things that I love was when we started implementing this, our guest retention really doubled. It went from 21% and we started putting these systems in place that only 21% of people that came the first time came back a second time. And now what we're starting to see is over time, it's I think right now it's at like 64%. And just a couple of years ago it was like third, it was like at 54%. And that is all because we're guiding their next steps and and really throwing it out there for them to say to themselves, what is my next step? And I think we can be really intentional as leaders in the church world to say everyone has a next step. What is it? And guide them and kind of hold their hand in that process.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

If someone is listening to this episode right now and they just feel like they're drowning in this area of connection, they've listened to all this, they believe you, they they believe there's some good strategy here, but they're just so overwhelmed that they don't know where to start. What is an area that you would tell them that if you did this now, you could get a quick win and start getting momentum in this area?

SPEAKER_01 23:11

I would say, like when we started the campus I'm at, we started with three people. We had one person in the parking lot, one person at the main doors, and one person at the worship doors. That was it. That's an easy place to start. Find volunteers that love people, that love your church, support you, and just start there and see where it begins to grow. Um, because people love people. While life can be messy, when I come to church, if no one talks to me, I'm not coming back. So if you can have at least those three touch points, that's huge. On my website, theconnectedchurch.com, there's a training, like an online course that you can really kind of see what it takes to build a thriving connections team. Some connections teams are five people, some for us, uh, we have 408 volunteers across all 10 campuses. And this might surprise people. Our lead connection person at every campus is a volunteer, they're not a staff person. So they started as a door greeter and have kind of worked their way up as our church has grown. And I just think people love people. If people are coming to your church, they want other people to come to your church, or at least I hope so. I hope they're not telling people, you know, don't come to my church. It's horrible. So um, but they want that. And if you can find those people, it's super easy. Obviously, I would love to help in any way possible. You mentioned the resources, but if it's a phone call, um, if it's a uh coaching or consult um type thing, uh I would love to help. Churches need to be the most welcoming, safe place because it's really it was my story. I was like a skater punk. I didn't know what to expect. And I came to a church that was a little bit more traditional than I was wearing an oversized Nirvana shirt and ginkos. Um, do you remember those? Do you know what ginkos are? 100%. Yeah. The big baggy jeans.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah. Did you have some? No, I uh my parents wouldn't would wouldn't, you know, go down that road with me.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

But my parents, uh my parents didn't love me, so I guess they let me wear them. So but but I showed up and everyone was wearing khaki pants, but you know what? They loved me. They asked who I was, what I was all about, they invited me to things, and that's what church should be. So I would say have those people in place and then go from there, develop the system, have follow-up and really evaluate along the way of why are we doing what we're doing, um, and go from there.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

If people want to get more connected with you, take advantage of some of the resources that you have, how can they do that?

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Yeah, so they can visit theconnectedchurch.com or Dustin Dozier, D O Z I E R dot com, have some free work resources on there, some follow-up scripts. Like I mentioned, I think a great place is the audit. Uh, it's online, it takes really two to three minutes, and it goes through kind of the first-time guest experience, guest follow-up, the pastor transparency, small group, and then that guest to member journey, and it'll give you a score. And then that's really what I would say uh needs to triage. And I have some resources for that. You can book a call or email me. And then if you would like the book, it's on Amazon. And then I would love to connect, like DM me on social media, on Instagram, Dustin Dozier, or Facebook. And uh man, I would just love to help your church, whether it's asking a simple question or coming in and really helping your staff and your leadership lead the way because God, God wants you, man, a great Sunday uh of getting people beyond just attending. Man, that's that's where growth is. It's the engine of your church. And that's what God intends uh for us to reach more people.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Well, you found a nice area to specialize in that's really taking care of people. Appreciate you doing that and sharing some of your wisdom with us today. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Man, thanks for having me, Josh.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

I really appreciate Pastor Dustin helping us build connection systems that strengthen growth. This conversation is so important because we do not want our churches to be just events people attend, but communities they join and rave about to others. This episode was brought to you by your team.church. Your team is a digital assessment platform for churches to use to connect volunteers to a team where they can thrive. What's different from other assessments is with your team, your church gets a unique URL with your church's branding that volunteers can use in your next step classes. It also includes a volunteer dashboard that syncs to Planning Center and allows you to easily customize the teams your volunteers are connected with. You can try the ProTear of your team free for 30 days at your team.church. Thank you for joining me today. I can't wait for you to be with us next time. Until then, keep building and believing strong.